Hey corndoggy, feel like answering another sub question?

[UofA TJ]

You're probably sick of people asking you about subs on this board, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway. First of all, I swear I'm not going to ask you for a bunch of advice and then go buy the cheapest crap I can find anyway, like I've seen some of the people do. That said, here's my situation:

Just bought a 00 XJ, and I want to replace the entire sound system (deck, all four of the 5.25"s, and I'd like to add a sub). Money is definitely a big object, but not as much of one as quality. I'm willing to spend a little more if it means a lot better sound. As far as total budget, I'm hoping to keep it under $400 not including the deck. The max I could go is probably $500 not including the deck.

I don't need anything that will win competitions. I just want great all-around sound with enough bass to maybe make people in the cars around me notice, but not to make them roll their windows up and put earplugs in. I've got quite a bit of space in the back of my XJ for a sub box, but of course I don't want to take it all up. I was thinking of getting just one good-quality sub.

So, here are my basic questions:

I like this deck the most out of the ones I've seen in my price range: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-LHoS22L2016/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=133DFX983
But that's based just on looks and what I know about what features I need. Is the 25w per channel RMS enough for what I'm looking for? Is this deck overkill? What do you think of this deck, or is there a better one for a similar price you'd recommend?

As far as speakers, I don't know where to start. Should I get a component setup or just four good 3-way speakers? Will that deck power the speakers (not including the sub), or would I need a separate amp from the one I'll need for the sub? Any specific mid-priced 5.25s you'd recommend?

Also, I'm thinking about 1 12" sub, based largely on what you told the other guy. But I have a little more space to work with, so are two 10"s a better option for me? If one 12 will provide the bass I'm looking for (again, not an earth-shattering amount) for cheaper, I'm all for it. I'm not going to be showing off to anybody.
So do you have any recommendations for a sub and what kind of box? What about ohms, do I even need to worry about ohm ratings or anything?

Lastly, I know you recommended Rockford amps to the other people. Do I need one rated to exactly as many watts RMS as my sub, or slightly more? Should I buy a 2-channel and bridge it?

I know that's a lot to ask, but if you've got a minute to point me in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it. I just really don't want to put my trust in those annoying car audio guys at Best Buy who always try to sell me stuff I don't need.

Oh, and one more thing. A long time ago, I helped a buddy of mine install a deck in my old truck. It didn't seem that terribly difficult, and I'm pretty good at following directions. Is installing that deck something I could do myself?

TIA.

[corndogggy]

I don't mind questions at all, I'm just not exactly an expert with the new equipment that is out. I know what I'm doing regarding the theory, but I just don't know about new equipment's reputation and stuff.

But anyway, one thing that is standing out to me is that you're on a budget, yet you are spending over $300 on a head unit. If that's what you want, that's great, go for it, but do you really need a 20,480 pixel display? Do you really need a CD changer controller? I do like the subwoofer output though. 25 watts into 4 channels is fine. I doubt you would find anything much more than that anyway.

As for the single sub argument, that's just my personal opinion. There may be good arguments against it. I just don't like the sound of 10's, and alot of the specs seem to agree with me. I've never heard a single system with 10's have good sub-bass. I don't mean booming stuff from a rap CD. I'm talking about the kind of stuff you'd hear if you had an Epicenter on. Even without an Epicenter, a 5-string bass can hit 32 Hz. A pipe organ can hit 35 Hz. I like for those notes to scare the crap out of me, instead of not being heard at all. Lower stuff than that is fun too, but most of that is synthesized.

I would normally say to go with components, but in reality, I don't think they're worth the extra cash, as for the sound itself, if you're on a budget. A guy that used to come in the shop I hung out at got 4th in nationals with only coaxial 6x9's up front in a Ranger, and two tweets in the rear view mirror as a center channel. What I do like about components is that you can aim the tweet anywhere you want. Also, if you do decide to go with components, make sure you get the kind with real crossovers. Some of them are basically coaxes without the tweeter mounted, and you just have a capacitor on the tweet, and they don't sound nearly as good. If you go with coaxes, I wouldn't worry about 3 ways. A good 2 way will be fine. If you find 3-ways, it's probably either a marketing thing, or the sounds that the smallest tweet makes is way beyond anything you'll ever hear, so why bother?

Yeah back to the sub issue, I would recommend going with one 15" before I'd say go to 2 10's.

As for an amp, yeah you can get a 2 channel if you want. If you know that you will never do anything except power subs, you can probably get a more powerful amp for cheaper by getting a mono amp. Yeah I'd get one that's rated a little more than your subs. Keep in mind that you're looking for the rating for the setup that you plan to run, not just stereo into 4 ohms for each side. Basically you never want to clip your signal going to the subs. The sine wave shouldn't be flat at the peaks.

Installing the deck should be easy if you can follow directions. The hardest thing is cramming the wires back in there once you've spliced everything and possibly added a wiring harness and antenna adapter.

Well I gots a meeting to go to. Holler back if you have more questions, I'll at least try to help.

[corndogggy]

Hey, for the 5 1/4's, looks like you need 4 of them... check out the Polk db525's on crutchfield. This link below may work. Polk is normally pretty nice, but those grills are ugly, but then again you shouldn't have to use them. You get a second pair for half price. The total for four would be $135. You also save another $25 if you buy these two pair, and order a receiver at the same time.

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-MXi5qs7GkIy/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=51800&I=107DB525&o=m&a=1&cc=01&avf=Y

That's cheaper than the appearent "blowout" sale on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3077768656&category=14941

Crutchfield has great customer support, but you normally pay a premium for that. In comparison, if you wanted to get a component set, you're looking at a minimum of $180 for only one set from Crutchfield.


Check out the Alpine CDA-9805 CD player from them, it's like $30 off right now for $170. It has some nice features without stuff that I don't think you need.

$170 head unit
$180 two sets Polk 5 1/4's
-$45 two speaker discount
-$25 receiver/speaker discount
-------------------
$280 total, free shipping supposedly

Considering that's $20 less than what you were going to spend on the head unit, I think this makes more sense. Get the sub and amp off of eBay, then build your own box. With the single Infinity Perfect 12 and the Rockford mono amp that I told that other guy about, if those are still available at those prices, with all of this you'd have a kick ass system for $600.

[UofA TJ]

Thanks a ton for all the help. I appreciate it. I'm on Crutchfield right now and I've got the Polks in my shopping cart ready to buy. I like the Alpine unit you suggested, but I really wanted a deck that could play MP3s. If the original panasonic was overkill, what do you think of the alpine CDA-9827? It's the cheapest Alpine that plays MP3s. How come the watts per channel goes down to 18 RMS on the more expensive alpines, when the cheaper ones have 24?

Actually, now that I keep looking, Panasonic has an MP3 deck on sale for $130. Is there anything this doesn't have that I need?:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-lUQEy0ByPeO/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=3&g=62700&I=133DP383&o=p&a=1&cc=01&avf=Y

I think I'd rather go with a non-Alpine, because for some reason that $25 off deal doesn't apply to Alpine products.

One of the reasons I chose that first Panasonic was that it had 5 volt preouts, and a friend of mine once told me that higher volt preouts were a lot better.

Building a box sounds kind of fun, but can I do it with just very basic hand tools? I took high school shop, but I'm no carpenter. Should I build a ported box?

Thanks again for the help!

[corndogggy]

Whoops. I missed the non-alpine thing. My second choice would be that $170 Clarion Pro Audio, but it doesn't have MP3's. I don't know anything about Panasonic. If you've got your heart set on that first one, go ahead and splurge. Maybe it's cheaper on eBay or something. Don't get into a situation where 2 months later you're like, man I wish I just would have spent a little more and got this other thing. Regarding the more expensive models having less output, I'm guessing that they think that if you're going to spend a boatload on a CD player, you're probably going to have a separate amp for your mids and highs so you don't care about having as much power as possible coming from the receiver. Used to, alot of high end receivers didn't have an amp at all, just had pre-amp outputs. I don't know about anymore.

[UofA TJ]

I'm still trying to decide on a deck, I'm leaning toward one of the cheaper mp3 units, maybe the panasonic or one of the pioneers. I'm also looking on ebay right now for the best price on one of that Infinity 12".

Or maybe I should just get this and a couple sets of neon lights, and be good to go :D :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076706514&category=32822

[UofA TJ]

Crutchfield is offering that Infinity 12" for 209, and it comes with a box. Although that box is .88 cubic feet and the speaker specs recommend 1.0.

I found a few on ebay priced in the low 100s. I'll probably just get one of those.

Are there any good websites w/instructions on how to build a speaker box?

Oh, and which Fosgate amp would be best for that sub? The P3001 would only push 150w to a 4 ohm sub, but the next one up is $500!
The P3002 says it will put out 300w bridged at 4 ohms, and it lists on Crutchfield for $350. Is that a better choice? Or do I need more watts from my amp than the sub is rated for, in which case I would probably have to get the power 551s, which is 550w bridged at 4 ohms?

Thanks again. I'm getting a good idea of what the setup will be, except I don't know what amp to get.

[corndogggy]

I think the one I had looked at before was the Rockford 500 watt mono amp. You can find those on eBay for around $200. There were some around $185 a couple months ago. Here's one for $225:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3077550710&category=18797

That thing will do 300 watts into a 4 ohm load, or 500 into a 2 ohm load. When you get a mono sub, you don't have the problem of the amp seeing half of the load, so running at 2 ohms is ok. If you get the Infinity that you talked about, that one at $209 is a dual 4-ohm voice coil, so you can run that in parallel and get 2 ohms. Or get two 4 ohm subs and get the same result. Yes, you've now got a 500 watt amp on a 350 watt sub if you get the dual voice coil version, but that's better than a 350 watt amp on a 500 watt sub due to clipping. There may be better matches, but I liked the sound of that setup, and I don't like working my amps to death. I was originally looking at the 300 watt mono amp, but it was underpowering that sub a little, and the 500 watt wasn't very much more, so I'd rather step up.

[corndogggy]

FYI, if you want to build your own box but don't have all the tools, really all you need is a handheld jigsaw and a drill. Go to the hardware store and they will cut the wood for you for like 25 cents per cut. You must provide dimensions though. Take it all home and piece it together. Slop down some wood glue, screw it together with drywall screws, cut out the sub hole, then seal the inside with silicone. I'll help with dimensions if needed.

[UofA TJ]

This car audio place in town I was just at has a deal going on a Sony mono amp that runs 400w@2 ohms. I forget the model number, it's a red pentagonal one. It's selling for $209 on sale, and I wouldn't have to pay shipping or anything. Are Sony amps any good, or should I just spend the extra money for the 500w Fosgate? Wouldn't a 400w be perfect for that Infinity 350w sub?

[corndogggy]

Yeah that would be a good match. I don't know anything about Sony amps. Personally I'd get the Fosgate, but I've just always been an RF fanatic. It should be fine though, especially since it will have a little power to spare. I had a Sony head unit and Sony component speakers, and wasn't really impressed with either, but that was a long time ago, and they weren't power amps. You probably want to have them demo it first, or maybe you already have.

[corndogggy]

OH yeah, keep in mind that when you get a head unit from Crutchfield, you get all the adapters and mounting kits for free. That's normally another $40 or so elsewhere.

[UofA TJ]

Just ordered my deck and two sets of those Polks. I would up going with the cheaper Panasonic deck after realizing there was no point in spending so much on the other one.

Also found the same Sony amp the local place wanted $210 for on EBay for $99 including an install kit. Now I just need to find a DVC 4 ohm Perfect 12 on Ebay, and I'll be set.

Corndogggy, thanks a million for all the help. Now I've just got to figure out the install ... should be fun.

[Hughes]

Tweeter has HB Quartz "Supposedly the best in the world" 5 1/4's (componet)reg 500.00 on sale for 280.00 pr. I installed those in my speaker bar with the little tweeter. Then put Boston Acustics up front.Then bolted in a 10"sub woofer box behind the back seat. Powered up by a 600amp under the back seat. The HU is a 60w X 4 cd/mp3 Alpine. Did it all for 1300.00 and installed myself. Sounds great.Might want to undo the lining around the speakerbar and line it with that sticky stuff to keep vibration down.Then put back the outer lining of the bar.

[corndogggy]

Originally posted by Hughes:
HB QuartzSounds like a cheap MB Quart knockoff to me! :D Or maybe that's what you meant, since them and Boston Acoustics are about on the same level.

[UofA TJ]

Ok, so I got all the stuff in the mail and am in the process of doing the install today. One question, though: the Infinity manual says to wire dual voice coil subs in series, but the crutchfield manual says that will raise the impedance to 8 ohms. Do I want to wire the sub in series or parallel to hook it up to a mono amp?

BTW, I bought the Sony amp, if that helps at all. It's 400w RMS.

[corndogggy]

You'll have to wire them in parallel to get the resistance down to 2 ohms.