Cage Design - Update Getting Final Plan Together

[OhioYJ]

Ok so I'm pricing steel right now, and will have my cage underway hopefully later this week if I can get my plan straight.

Here are my thoughts so far:

Black = Stock YJ Cage
Blue = Stuff I'm 95% sure on adding.
Red = Stuff I'm still making up my mind on.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/mr5oh/cage.gif

Step 1: The stock YJ cage is in black. The lines in blue are what I'm pretty sure I want to add. I was planning on using the stock bars that attach to the windsheild and adding the down tubes, adding a bar behind the rear seats to attach seat belts, then bracing the back half of the cage with tubing.

Step 2: Still debating stuff in red, I'm thinking adding the side braces would help strengthen the main hoop, then perhaps one across the top of the dash, this one I'm not sure about, but it seems I keep seeing this one done in cages.

Step 3: Simple cross bracing on the top of the rear half of the cage.

Step 4: Adds some bracing to enclose the area above my head, along with some supports going down to the main hoop.

Step 5: "X"s in the rear half of the cage.

Ok so I'm really wanting some feedback about what should be done, and what absolutely has to be done. I'm considering the cheaper .134 tubing, so designing the cage to be overkill proably isn't a bad idea since it will be seamed tubing. What about gussestting, any ideas on things that should have them?

[OhioYJ]

I overlooked something pretty major I think, I believe I should have some sort of diagonal on that main hoop.

And before anyone asks, Step 4 is the way it is so I can still have my sound bar.

[Little Juan]

Personally, I'd skip the YJ windshield support bars. They don't really do anything structurally. I'd start with the rear of the YJ cage, then fab up replacements for them.

Other than that, the cage on my CJ is pretty much like the blue/black lines you got there. I'm not a cage expert, so I had a fabricator do mine.

Hopefully somebody with more info can chime in.

Link to pics:
http://longboy.shutterfly.com/action/pictures?a=67b0de21b30f84eac4ad

[OhioYJ]

Personally, I'd skip the YJ windshield support bars. They don't really do anything structurally.My hopes/thoughts were that they weren't structual because they only attach to the windshield, I was hoping if I tied them into the frame, they would become structual.

[Little Juan]

I guess if you're going to the effort of having a cage fabbed up, what are you saving by not replacing those 2 bars with something more substantial?

How thick are those tubes? I don't know, as my YJ bar didn't come with them. But my guess is that they aren't as strong as cage material (DOM, HREW, blah blah blah).

[iJeep]

Unless you're really doing some stupidly dangerous stuff, Is the red a little overkill? Are you looking to protect yourself, or stiffen the jeep? Maybe the "X" over the top of the rear seat... maybe. I would do a "V" shape directly behind the front seats. The horizontal blue line is not as strong as that would be. It wouldn't interfere with your line of sight in the rearview mirror, and it will create three triangles... Triangles are your friend!

[Jeepskate]

Dump the stock windshield bars and put a proper front cage up there with the 'red' dash bar, and triangulate it overhead. You might consider running the door bars level, running stringers across the cab between them, and mounting your seats & harnesses to them if you're going to be tackling any hardcore stuff. The stringer behind the front seats should be positioned for proper mounting of harnesses and some triangulation there would be a good idea. 'Blue' bar across the back is fine as are the 'red' kickers, I wouldn't bother with the 'blue' kickers, and of course triangulate overhead in the back as well. I'd suggest searching around pirate4x4.com's forums as there are many threads and examples of how to and how not to construct a cage.

[zachv]

Personally, I think this is about the best way to go for a YJ that you still have to be able to get in and use for trail wheeling. I am a little biased, but it is a good design that has worked well.

http://atozfabrication.com/images/JOSH_YJ_CAGE_-BUMPERS-TUBE_FENDERS_15.JPG
http://atozfabrication.com/images/JOSH_YJ_CAGE_-BUMPERS-TUBE_FENDERS_19.JPG

As you can see that is a full cage, but something real similar can be done with the stock YJ rollbar. Definitely replace the stock windshield bars as they are low-grade material and will bend when needed. A full diagonal on the b-pillar is preferred, but if you cannot live with that a few solid gussets in the corners will come close to the same strength. Are you keeping the back seat? If so, then some braces on the top is a good idea, but not needed if you will not have people back there.

[kwrangln]

First a question, do you have a bender or are you just adding a front hoop from a shop and a bunch of strait tube?

From what you've drawn you have alot of unnecessary tube in there. Get a good idea of what you want your 3 main hoops to look like, then get em in place. Sit in the thing and plan out clearance for silly little stuff like your head, seats, passengers, and other stuff. You'd be suprised how clearance changes ideas. I spend about 2 hours laying out bracing and diagonals after Zach came over and showed me how to bend up the main structure. Lay down tape in the design that looked good, sit in seat and check distance around head etc, change design, repeat as necessary. At least with my cage, doing just an X over the passenger compartment would have put steel too close to my grape for comfort.

Basically, go for the main structure, then worry about all your diagonals, take your time, and make sure everything looks good in the real world before committing to steel, and not just an idea on paper. I know I've posted pics of mine, but I think the site I link em to is down.

[OhioYJ]

I don't have a bender, just using straight tubing to try and brace the stock cage some.

I guess I ought to go sit in the Jeep tommorow, and see if anything in my design would be in a bad place.

I want to make sure the cage is solid, but at the same time, I don't want to further add weight up high if it isn't necessary. I'm thinking just one diagonal in the back window would be sufficent.

The bars that would go near the driverside doors are probably going to be in the way of the seats, and also probably unecessary I guess.

I'm going through zachs photos, to try and get some more ideas.

What about seat belts, my main concern was getting a bar behind me in the main hoop, to have a place to attach harnesses, I'm not really seeing any cages that utilize anything other than the stock seat belts.

[kwrangln]

Order a smittybuilt front cage hoop for a CJ with a padded dash. It will be a tight fit, but will fit. Get rid of the factory bars to the windshield, as they are pretty much just for decoration. Worry about building the foundation of your cage first, then brace it, then add the bar for harnesses. Depending on where you run your seats, a strait bar for harnesses might not work for ya as most need some bends in the ends to space em back from the seat. When I get a chance to install my harnesses I'll take some pics for ya.

[kwrangln]

Come to think of it, Zach has a YJ now, get ahold of him and see what your options are, he may be able to bend something up for ya and ship it, dont know.

[OhioYJ]

Well my design is slowly changing some as I sit in the Jeep and notice what won't work because of seats and such in the way.

I guess I should ask zach what he thinks about doing one, I've briefly looked at the one posion spyder sells. Considering the price of steel right now, making one comes close to the price of buying one.

[kwrangln]

Funny how sitting in it will change plans that worked perfectly on paper isnt it?

For mine, I wanted a simple X in the top, sitting in it with tape laid out where the tubes would be made me redesign quick. Here you can see how needing clearance led me to adding the strait stringers from front to back since the diagonals in the front part of the top of the cage couldnt go all the way to the B pillar. Ya do what ya can, and add stuff where ya have to in order to make it work. Mine turned out alot more complicated than I wanted to begin with.

http://www.the-jersey-devil.com/photopost/data/521/101jeep6-med.JPG

[OhioYJ]

So when you did yours did you know exactly what you were doing when you started, or did you get some sort of general idea, start welding and just see where it went?

I've got a scrap piece of tub thats about 3 ft long that I've been holding in different positions to get some ideas.

[OhioYJ]

I just noticed it appears that you changed where the "main hoop" attaches on yours, do you have a picture from the rear? Is yours tied into the frame?

[kwrangln]

Cage buildup pics in this thread, click (http://bbb.quadratec.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=39;t=005416#000017)

Frame tie in pics in this thread, click. (http://bbb.quadratec.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=39;t=005478#000013)

Anything else you want pics of just holler. The only factory mounts I'm using are the B pillar mounts, behind the seats.

As for getting started, I looked at alot of pics and had a general idea of what I wanted it to look like, told Zach, and he schooled me on how to bend tubing. I cant throw enough praise his way for all the help he's given me on this and my previous project. Without his help I would have wasted alot of tube and probably had a much worse looking final product. I can weld and fab stuff, but tube is a whole nother animal.

[OhioYJ]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/mr5oh/cage2.gif

Ok I've revised my cage design a little.

Step1:

In step 1, the blue lines are what I pretty sure needs to be added.

Step2:

The green lines that appear in step 2 I forgot but will be added too.

The red lines in step 2, I'm still deciding on, not sure whether to "X" above the rear seat, then sort of "V" above the front seat (Those red lines in the front of the cage should be angled more).

Step3:

Step 3 has pink lines, as I've thought about just doing some straight lines from front to back on the cage, not sure if it would actually add any strength to the cage, but it would still keep large stuff (like rocks) clear of my head.

Any Feedback?

[tinknocker]

when i did mine i wanted something strong but simple!!! to me too many bars looks like ****!!!

i started with a standard a hoop that very simply matches the angles of the windshield!!! the floor plates of the a hoop i bolted threw the tub into my frame mounted rocker's in between the rockers and the floor plates i used sleeves to keep from crushing the tub, between the 2!!!

it has 4 spreaders that have like a 5 degree bend in them!!! these i attached to the stock b hoop!!! i originally was going to do the x pattern but no matter how i laid it out when wheeling i would constantly hit my head on it!!! plus eventually i am going to fill the space between the 2 center stringers with a couple of flat pieces of steel and mount my cb, radio and lighted switches in it!!!

the back i pondered for quite some time, i pretty much made it from scratch!!! i probably should have a couple of extra bars in the back, but the kids like to climb the rear wheels and hop in through the cage!!!

after all was said and done i added a few gussets at a few points, i thought needed it and then painted!!!

here's some pics in case you forgot what my rig looks like!!! :D ;) :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid178/p90d16787e780f130f3f3fcdd473781cf/f3385338.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid178/pb1ee5a0b89f2010b58fb07e109a6e408/f3385328.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid178/pb827d2155729093bf929533201ca1cfc/f338535b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid185/pcfb5e980dce7270c956c52db560e0011/f264551e.jpg

[OhioYJ]

I still think I'll add some bracing on the sides, but I like the way the top of your cage is done tinknocker, I think I might steal your idea.

[wissemeier05]

hey just to throw my cage into the ring idk how structual it is but the guy b4 me did it i think it looks ok and would serve ..ok... 1 (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/wissemeier_05/detail?.dir=ca03&.dnm=e036.jpg&.src=ph)

not the clearest picture but you get the idea

[OhioYJ]

Dan I didn't realize you had a cage, got anymore pictures of it?

[kwrangln]

Careful, its easy to get carried away adding tubing every which way, and before you know it you'll end up with something like this.

http://www.the-jersey-devil.com/photopost/data/521/101101MVC-003F-med.JPG

:D

[OhioYJ]

Yeah I know, I've had a few people say my design maybe overkill, but I really want to make sure its enough to take a roll, and hopefully take the roll without destroying it to much. My thoughts are that this may very well save my life one day, and I want to make sure, if anything its overkill. Saftey First right?

[Little Juan]

Originally posted by kwrangln:
http://www.the-jersey-devil.com/photopost/data/521/101101MVC-003F-med.JPG

Needs more triangulation.


No, really. :D

[zachv]

Ken, I do not see a diagonal between the passenger side B-pillar and the driver side A-pillar. If you are going to do it, do it right. Geesh. Safety first, ya know.